Penney for Your Thoughts: Longevity, Mindset & Women's Health
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Penney for Your Thoughts: Longevity, Mindset & Women's Health
Highly sensitive people and the impact on health and happiness
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Patricia Young, an author and coach to Highly Sensitive People discusses the HSP trait and her personal journey with HSP. In this episode, we discuss sensitives, creatives, deep thinkers and deep feelers. We discuss how to embrace these traits, manage your emotions, and the importance of setting clear boundaries to reduce anxiety, stress, and increase mindfulness.
Hello, I'm Penny Meganson from the Meginson Method, and welcome to Penny for Your Thoughts, where we discuss how our thoughts affect our health. And I'm joined here today by Patricia Young. Welcome, Patricia.
SPEAKER_01Hi, how are you?
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for joining. And I'm so excited to talk about our topic today. It's really something that I'm passionate about. And so Patricia is a licensed therapist. She's a coach and she's a podcaster for her own podcast, which is unapologetically sensitive. And so today we're going to talk about the high the um HSP, which is the highly sensitive person. So Patricia, why don't you tell me and the audience a little bit more about that?
SPEAKER_01Sure. You know, I love the informal definition of if anybody has ever said you're too, you're too sensitive, you're too intense, you're too dramatic, you're too picky, you think too much, you worry too much, you need to get thicker skin, you might be a highly sensitive person. And Dr. Vilaine Aaron coined the trait back in the 90s. It's a research-based trait. They've done fMRIs. It shows that we've got more active mirror neurons, parts of our brains are more responsive. They've identified the trait in over a hundred animal species. So I always love to start out that way that it's not that you're just too sensitive. And people often think if they had a hard childhood, that that's why they're so in tune. And research shows that that's not the trait. So there are four core characteristics that make up the trait, and it spells out the acronym DOS or DOES. The D is depth of processing. We're very deep thinkers, we're deep processors, we see the breadth and depth of things. It's in our prefrontal cortex. So we reflect more than others, we look for meaning. We have a more active insula. We have a tendency to really want social justice and equity. We often have strong feelings about the underdog. So depending on where you are in the world, even with the pandemic, this can be really hard on our tender hearts. The O is for over arousal or over-stimulation. So that feeling of being stressed out or burnt out. This is probably one of the more negative parts of being a highly sensitive person because our culture is really about doing as opposed to being. We're deep feelers and thinkers and sensors. So chronic overstimulation can lead to depression and anxiety. And we often need time to just kind of have a little bit of downtime. It's like we're a sponge and we absorb so much, and then it's really hard to kind of squeeze that sponge out to get that sense of being refreshed. Where if you're not an HSP, people can get very overstimulated and then turn around and go ahead and you know start again. And that's not the case for us. The E is for emotional responsiveness or empathy. So we have more active mirror neurons. We tend to feel much more empathy for things, we bring more emotional intensity. If we're if we don't know how to regulate, we tend to be emotionally reactive. But part of what you want to do is learn how you're wired so that you become responsive and not reactive. And then the S is sensitive to subtleties. So we can notice when the barometric pressure is dropping, we've got more side effects for medications, we can be more sensitive to sounds, to bright lights, things like that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so it really is something that can be tested and found out it's not just because what's interesting is the work that I do with EFT tapping and NLP, uh, we know that no two people see the same situation the same way. So some people, you know, and it's all based on what's happened in the past. And so some people are very sensitive to certain things because of things that have happened to them before, little micro traumas, that sort of thing, negative situations or you know, past events like that, um bad memories. And um, so it's nothing to do with that, basically. It's it's something you're born with.
SPEAKER_01It is. We have a go ahead. Yeah, no, no, no. Um we have a finely tuned nervous system. And so there's not, I mean, it's not feasible to put somebody in a fMRI to see if they're highly sensitive. The thing is, so there's something called differential susceptibility. So you put us in a good situation, we're gonna fare better than the non-HSPs. You put us in a bad situation, and we're gonna fare worse than the other HSPs. And what Dr. Aaron's research shows is that children that have a difficult childhood, and to me, that can be having a parent that's not an HSP. How come you're worrying about stuff? Get over it, stop crying. That leads to higher rates of anxiety and depression. And because the way that we're wired, we tend to be great projectors, forecasters, problem solvers. I kind of joke, you know, if you tend to be the type of person that carries a purse around, we're the one that has band-aids and aspirin and, you know, anything that anybody could ever need because we can anticipate we've got snacks, we've got change, we, you know, everything because we know what could happen and we want to be prepared. It there are commonalities around HS amongst HSPs, and there's still variability. So it's not like we all show up to the world the same way. But we're often misdiagnosed with anxiety, depression, ADHD, OCD, borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder. You know, we are neuro neurodivergent, and so we do process things differently, we do experience the world differently, and we are in a minority, so it's not uncommon to have that sense of like just never quite fitting in because we haven't found our people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So, what would you suggest to someone who's watching, um, or someone who's watching who isn't this way themselves, but knows somebody who is, or is maybe their, you know, the loved one or their children. What would you suggest? Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You've got to learn as much as you can about the trait. You know, what happens is people that hate their sensitivity or have partners that hate their sensitivity, there's often, this is my belief, that there's wounding involved. If we were raised in an environment with a parent who really got who we were and we got upset, they'd go, like, of course you're upset. Let's do some deep breathing, let's talk about what's going on, let's see what we can do. My guess is that the people that are highly sensitive that are faring very well do not know that they're highly sensitive because they got what they needed. So I think where there's this intersection of wounding, people hate their sensitivity. They often want to learn how to not be so sensitive. And my belief is you learn about the trait, you learn how you're wired, and you learn how to lean into those things. And if you have a partner that's trying to get you to not be so sensitive, that's problematic also because this is how we're wired and we come with amazing gifts. We're creative and we are tuned in. We tend to be the emotional glue that holds our families and our relationships together. We're creative, we're loyal, we're conscientious, we're the people that come prepared. We've got amazing gifts, but if we've gotten messages all of our lives that how we show up in the world is not okay, we we tend to feel like there's something wrong with us and that we're flawed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's maybe understanding those negative and being able to focus on your strengths, like you were saying, always being prepared, being very creative and those sorts of things, and knowing that the other stuff is okay. Um, and by the way, we all have the good and the bad, and so maybe the bad isn't so bad. Um, and I know I I can probably think of a few friends that are exactly like this, and I love having them around because they are always prepared and they have the snacks for the kids and they think about everything that could go wrong, where you know, for me it just goes over my head. And so you're right, I mean, it there's a definite positive to all of this. So now you work with people um who have HSP. And can you give an example of how you were able to help someone either um raise that awareness or understand how to create a lifestyle that honors them?
SPEAKER_01Sure. I mean, I was just talking with a client the other day, and her husband is very extroverted. His family is extroverted, so they love having people, you know, his family loves having people drop in and spend a lot of time. She's good for a limited amount of time and then she's done. And if we don't understand our trait, you know, his perception is that there's something wrong and deficient with her. Now, on the other hand, we like to have really in-depth conversations. Chances are if you identify as an introvert, you may be a highly sensitive person because a lot notice my face and my judgment, a lot of what's been written about introverts is really about the highly sensitive person. And I want people to know what's what. But you know, we like to have deep conversations. We don't like doing chit-chat, that doesn't work for us. And so when she wants to have a really in-depth conversation with him and he doesn't have the space to go there, she doesn't talk about that. So he sees her as having the deficit. But if she knows about her trait, she can go, like, you know what? I want to go deep and you've had enough. You know, we're wired differently. So it's not about the HSP and the non-HSP, it's about relationships are challenging, and you've got to learn to honor both people and come together. But as the HSP, we need to know who we are and our strengths and feel okay so we can advocate for ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And what do you see for those that um maybe are completely unaware or are really trying to not embrace this and try and change? What do you see as the overall negative side effect or impact on health or their overall happiness?
SPEAKER_01Well, we tend to be because we want things to feel good, you know, that we want that sense of peace. We often are peacekeepers, we can struggle with boundaries, being assertive, struggle with perfectionism, high achievement, but we don't have a voice. And so we struggle with depression and anxiety. A lot of autoimmune disorders, I think, can be related. I'm not saying that it's caused by being highly sensitive, but I, you know, when we get the message that who we are and how we show up in the world is not okay and we have to suppress that, we constantly feel like there's something wrong with us, that's going to have an impact on our physical and mental and emotional well-being.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. And your um your advice, I suppose, to someone who's watching this, um, what would be the first step?
SPEAKER_01Learn as much as you learn as much as you can. I mean, I I talk about the trait in my podcast. I would go back to Dr. Elaine Aaron's work. You can find her on the internet. She's got a bunch of books out. If you, you know, like YouTube, search her up on YouTube. Find the people that you know that you can trust around the trait. There's a lot about high sensitivity by and I've made mistakes. I've I've said repeatedly that we have more mirror neurons. We have more active mirror neurons. So I've I've made, and every time I catch it, I'm like, oh, that's out there in the public. Like, yeah, I'm human and I made a mistake and I try and do the best that I can. And if you're struggling with your trait, find somebody who knows about high sensitivity because so much of what we've internalized, we don't even know that we've internalized it. And, you know, thinking like that, I mean, my favorite story is I to try and make it succinct, I had a home office and my husband repainted it from yellow to the blue that you see in this room. But there was, you know, the yellow peeking out and some blue on the ceiling, and it it irritated me. I didn't say anything, but when I moved offices in the house, I decided to pay to have a painter paint it because those things uh it it disrupts my sense of peace. And he's like, You're so picky. I'm like, Yep. And he's like, Does it bother your clients? Does it affect the therapy that you do? No, but it really impacts me. And every time I'm in this room, and like I, you know, I do yoga in here, and I'm like, oh, the ceilings are like clean, and there's like there's no, like, yeah, I notice details, and that's enough to disrupt my sense of peace. It was worth it for me to pay. Yeah, I'm picky. If I didn't know that, I can guarantee you that the next 10 years, every time my husband says something, I'd be like, No, it's because I'm so picky, it's probably because I'm so picky. It's like, yeah, I am.
SPEAKER_00So it's really accepting, just that acceptance of yourself that these are your traits and it's how you are, and and that's okay, exactly. Um for someone who is struggling with maybe a mild depression or anxiety, um, and this sort of speaks to them, what would your message be to them?
SPEAKER_01Again, learn as much as you can about the trait. And if you're struggling, find somebody who knows about the trait. I was diagnosed with anxiety, depression, ADHD. I was on medication. I'm not making any kind of argument for pro-medication or not. I want to be very, very clear about that. I think an awful lot of what I struggled with was because I didn't think it was okay to show up in the world the way that I am. Is my life perfect? No. Do I struggle with things? Yes. Have I arrived? No. I think being alive and being human is messy and it's uncomfortable. And we have ups and downs. And I think when you're highly sensitive, you tend to have more periods where, you know, like things are good and you feel expansive and then you feel contracted. But if you know that that's what your rhythm is and you have good support, you go like, oh, that's what's going on again. If you need meds, great. And I'm not on meds anymore because I I think that it was really about. I have trauma from my childhood. I'd done a lot of work. I continue to do that. So working with someone who really can understand what's going on and help you tease out, you know, and support you in your process. If you're working with a clinician who has an agenda about what you should and shouldn't be doing, find another clinician because we know what we need and we need that support and guidance to be empowered to figure out what we want. If somebody's telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing, mm-mm, scary. Sure.
SPEAKER_00And so describe what a session with you would be like if someone were to work with you. Um, who I'm totally unaware, and this just sort of speaks to them, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What I suggest is, you know, think about something that happened that was uncomfortable because we can talk about theory all we want, but when you bring a specific situation, you know, I just got into this thing with my partner this morning, or this thing happened at work, then we look at, you know, what what did they say? What was a story you made up in your head? How often does this happen? Is this something that happens a lot across the board? So we figure out, you know, oftentimes we perceive things, but but the meaning that we attach to it is not always accurate. And if we've got wounding, we may not be seeing what we're feeling is real, but the reality around it may not be exact. And so starting to see what those patterns are and learning how to ask in the moment of what's going on or if we need to reparent ourselves. Like I'm going through a thing with my family right now with COVID and what I feel safer for the for the holidays. And my family are not HSPs and they have a really different perspective. I'm just like, I'm I'm in angst about this because I have very strong feelings about what feels safe.
SPEAKER_00And they're like, Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that was something that really came to mind for me as well. I noticed during the lockdown how many more people were reaching out to me because they were feeling anxious and um stressed about the situation and just the lack of control and that sort of thing. And um, and it became quite clear to me that there were uh different types of coping mechanisms. And some people really saw the negative and were really worried about what could go wrong, where other people were just seeing the positive and saying, you know, this is nice, the family are working from home and we're all together and we're gonna go for nice walks and just, you know, enjoy family time and that sort of thing. And you could really see the difference in ways of seeing the same information. And um, and it was interesting to see how some people really internalized it and were really worried, even if their personal situation didn't involve, you know, they weren't around their older parents. Um, maybe their older parents weren't even alive anymore. And and so, and they were young and fit, and um, but they would still worry for everyone, and um just like you were saying. So it was very interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, those were that's about having high levels of empathy, and you know, that and and what I really work with clients is the both and that we can feel the stress and the worry, and we can focus on what we have control over. But I think to tell somebody's highly sensitive to just think positive, to get over it, to have gratitude is probably one of the most damaging things that you can do, and that because we do feel things so deeply and because that high level of empathy, we need to find a way to honor both of them. If if I didn't have all the mics up, you know, I usually hold my palms up, you know, and one side is the heavy feelings, and the other side is what can we do? What can we focus on? How can we change your thoughts? But it's not about pretending to be positive when we're having concern.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. You're right. It really is um honoring yourself and your feelings and not just sort of putting them under the carpet and saying, well, I'm just gonna smile and pretend that everything's okay. Um, I agree. I think a lot of the positive messaging that is out there, a lot of people are just, I'm just gonna think positive thoughts all day, and all they're doing is just pushing all the back and it's not going away, and they're not addressing um issues that they might be having. Um, so I absolutely agree with you that you have to sort of see everything, understand yourself, and you know, love and accept yourself for who you are, and then try and find those solutions and find um your way of being happy in the world and work on your strengths. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I can tell you that at the beginning, the first couple of months were really, really hard for me. And the people around me that I'm close to, some of them therapists, were like, I'm fine, it doesn't bother me. And I watched what was going on in their lives and I watched the changes. And although they said nothing was going on, like I could see how they were showing up was different, their stress levels were different. So again, you know, we have this sense of how come I'm being impacted and other people aren't. If we watch and sometimes we don't see, people are impacted. They just not, they may not have that awareness or they may not see how it's showing up for them. And again, it can really be a lonely, isolating thing until we learn to go like, I'm I'm thinking it, I'm feeling it, it's real, you know, and and we find our other HS support so that we talk to them about it, and like, I'm right there with you. I got, you know, I got you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. So just being able to talk about things. Um, and I agree, I think a lot of people might be feeling things and they just react differently. And so not everybody puts it out there. A lot of people might be thinking a lot of things, but not actually presenting it to the world. And so you might feel alone in your thoughts and your worries, but um, I think a lot more of us are feeling the same ways and just showing up differently.
SPEAKER_01Um and you've got to find other HSPs to hang out with. I mean, you've got to find HSPs that are working on themselves because that I think is one of the most powerful things. I run these online courses and for HSPs. And what everybody has said is like I show up in a group and there are other people that are going, like, yeah, me too. We're normally we're trying to fit in with the other 80%. We're really good at externally figuring out what are the rules and how do I need to show up and how do I kind of pretend to be this person that I'm not. And like now you're with people that are these are your people, and people get it, and there's this sense of like there's nothing wrong with me. I know I keep saying that, but every time we have that experience of somebody going like, oh, me too.
SPEAKER_00It's like sure, absolutely. Now, if anyone wants to reach out to you, how can they get in touch with you, Patricia?
SPEAKER_01The best thing to do is to go to my website. It's I know it's a mouthful that's unapologetically sensitive.com. All my podcast episodes are there. I've got lots of videos about you know how to tell if you're an HSP, things that you might struggle with. All my social media handles are there. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Great. Well, thank you so much for joining. It's been lovely and just fantastic talking to you. Uh, very happy. And again, if any of you are wanting uh more information to get in touch with Patricia, you can always get in touch with me as well and at Meginson Method. And um, thank you so much for joining. Thank you again, Patricia. Thanks for having me.